‘Morning boys. Part II of Carp’s mystery interviews are up
https://theathletic.com/2602677/2021/05/24/former-rangers-on-the-state-of-the-rebuild-part-2-the-no-brainer-coach-to-hire-and-how-to-add-toughness/
First round of the post season has been fun. I for one am glad to see Edmonton getting exposed for what they are out West. You think Tom Wilson is going to beat up on his caddy today? 🙂
343 responses to “Playoffs Moving Along”
Conor is playing amazing hockey. Kyle Connor that is…
McDavid is silky smooth and fast as lightning but not a lot of board work in his game from the limited viewing. But thats ok because ‘points’
I liked Winnipeg this series..just not as a sweep
James – NYR seems to be replicating the 2004-06 Jagr phase with Bread playing the role of Jagr and Strome playing the role of Nylander. A quasi-playoff contender with a bunch of point compilers who don’t play two way hockey and a slew of not ready for prime time players hoping to accelerate the learning curve to lead the next charge.
They need a complete reboot in the middle and that should not include any of the current center incumbents, but prolly too difficult to pull that off in today’s market. By default the Hit Machine (Stromeo) should be the one to remain because of relatively lower salary demands and Bread ‘likes him’ but all three could and should be moved (Meeka, Stromeo, 5th Year Flip) over the next 12 months.
James, its okay to overpay Danault rather than Strome because we can’t win a face off or match up against top centers
SN, the biggest difference I see (if not the only one) in that comparison is that Nylander really couldn’t provide any offense without Jagr beside him. Strome played without Panarin and he helped keep the offense going.
I do not totally disagree with the idea of a reboot in the middle, I just don’t think they could/would do it in one offseason.
So it’s more a question of ‘where to begin?’ heading into the draft and presumably ending at the deadline in ’22.
IMO, the answer to that question is you start with the guy that has more value to other GMs in the league and that’s Mika.
Bobby- you can have Danault in the lineup without getting rid of Strome. I highly doubt Panarin would be thrilled with Danault as his center.
With no move, there are not gonna be many options with Mika ….the teams he would waive for are most likely up against cap
you can have both James. Panarin may not be thrilled with Danault as his center….maybe Torts would though
Keep torts far away from here
Not going to do any meaningful winning with Zibanejad as your lead horse.
Probably not popular but… if the organization thinks that Red Barron’s game is harder nosed (it looked it in a limited sample) then move Chytil and drop Barron in. If you can package a D prospect with Chytil and can get a decent late 20s 3C, great do it and drop Barron to 4C.
You leave Mika and Strome alone for now, though honestly I would be looking to extend Strome now. If stars align and something comes along for Mika that you think he’ll waive NMC for and is a good hockey trade, sure. But I’m not seeing that one happening now.
Center is something that is pretty much guaranteed to resolve itself by next summer in a better and maybe deeper market. In the mean time, plenty of other needs to address!
There are decent FA centers available this offseason Daneault, Coleman, Cezikas all good fits.
Tristan Jarry, lol.
At least when Tokarski replaced Price in 2014, Tokarski played his ass off.
Pens (and Jarry) are utterly USELESS.
Danault – yes
Coleman – yes
Czikis – won’t be coming here, so forget about it.
Beezle
You’re on track imho with the process (if not the names as well). This whole convo got blown out of proportion because someone got upset over a comparable.
It was all about IF (notice the big if) you moved a top 6 centre this off-season it should be Meeka (yes, nmc make it unlikely), not just due to the all agreed upon disappearing act but IF (there it is again) you kept one long term strome makes a lot more sense because of
His chemistry with panarin
His ability to play physical compared to meeka (universally agreed upon here as not saying much)
Looking at comparables, he should in theory come in around Kreider $$$ with his next contract because he’s as good at Kreider in some things but produces more points.
But of course, that last one led to some pretty ridiculous non topic pushback because I guess Kreider is way underpaid?!
Meeka would love Miami or LA, can’t see him going waiving his NMC to go to Lumbus or Carolina
Believe me when I say this, if you want to wholesale change all 4 Ranger centres from this past season and replace them with Bennett, danault, Crosby, and Paquette (or any combo of centres that are obtainable…on rangers fan wish lists…can be taken hostage…etc) I’m all in, let’s do it.
I’m just not sure how feasible it is.
So the legitimate question is what CAN they do?
Akbar
Despite the trap, honest question… is danault your 3C and Coleman your 4C?
The comparable was Kreider does nothing if he doesn’t score so Strome is better because he scores more. And hits don’t count because they are subjective. Welp, when one guy has 115 hits credited and the other has 22, I can see why the subjectivity is brought up. Another Kreider fact, 2nd of all forwards in blocked shots even though no PK time.
He is overpaid, just like every player in his 3rd deal (like Strome will be) as the team is paying for the past more than the future given the premium in the Free Agency market.
Moving on….
That would be an upgrade for sure. But not enough for playoffs.
Not sure about Mika. Strome is ok as 2 or 3c
Danault is absolutely on my wish list.
Its not that Kreider does nothing if he doesn’t score…its that he doesn’t do enough of the other things .
If Meeka isn’t moving (nmc) and strome and Panarin are “linked”, what’s the plan?
I think this whole panarin wants a specific player thing isn’t just about the player…we all get the player is strome, but my opinion is the player is not only strome but it’s with strome at centre for him.
I am basing on the line combos…if pansnarin “wanted” strome on his line and didn’t care where then we’d have seen a most likely combo of those two on wings with Meeka or chytil in the centre at some point correct?!
The easy solution to me is tell panarin to stuff it and play with whatever centre he is given. Maybe drury will do that, but it’s petty clear from all reports that the big lazy and the hedgehog wouldn’t.
Bobbyo
10:25….100% spot on sir. Which is what the majority of us have simply pointed out for quite a while.
He’s a fine player who’s going to be a overpaid 3rd line lw on this team that should get a good amount of pp (lol) time and possibly pk time depending on other moves.
SN
Lol
The plan should be to move one or Strome/Chytil and Buchnevich and bring in Daneault or Coleman and some beef for bottom 6.
Pigoink with 40 toi last night, 36 ES led Wpg.
Option one is leave the top two as is this season and get two new bottom 6 centres. I like that idea, it seems easier to do but does that help a lot with top 6 centres (one in particular) disappearing in “tough” games.
What does danault cost? You need to add top 6 ability wingers (probably 2 of them) that are more rugged in this scenario and do this assure kakko a 3RW role? Is he a rugged top 6 winger that goes with one of the two top 6 LW/C combos that would seem set in this scenario?
Panarin strome ?
Lafreniere Meeka ?
Kreider danault kakko?
Barron (pick a ufa C) krapsoft?
Or do you skip the rugged guys that would stabilize the top two lines and go bottom tough heavy and deal with the same issues (more or less) in the top 6?
Not really following the Kreider/ Strome comp.
Absent truly compelling reasons to do otherwise, it is ok to defer to your ‘superstar’ winger on which center he feels he plays best with. The idea after all is to maximize your star’s potential without hurting the other lines, at least not net net team basis.
Wicky,
I would gut the center ice position. Meeka, Strome, and Chytil, all gone. If not for 21/22, then certainly for 22/23. It’s the position that has held them back.
Drury leaning toward thick-crusted Sicilian with onions?
I’d move Strome for futures. Then use those futures to try and pry a veteran center away from a team that is rebuilding. I’d pkg Chytil in a trade for a big fish, and I’d let Zibanejad ride out his contract. Can’t do much with his NMC.
This has been said many times by more than one person, but LA is a match trade wise. Center for D.
You guys keep forgetting Howden
Smitty to Drury: ‘Chris, what’s the rate for jumping Wilson? I figure it’s a 2 year extension.’
Buch came a long way under DQ – under a new coach with a ‘new’ philosophy of playing tougher I think you might see a nastier Buch as well. He’s shown it at times so it is in there, deeply buried 😉
If you think Kakko is a season or two away yet (both production and overall play wise), then you pick up an above average guy on a two or three year deal and leave KK on third line with a new center (from within or outside).
The bottom six are definitely easier to sort out. Even with the potential of a disappearing Mika act, having a 3rd/4th line that can put a few in on a more regular basis alleviates that to an extent. Could make opponents play it a little more honestly too which would help Mika out.
Fixing the bottom six might pay more rewards in the nearer term than forcing things at center and is always going to be easier to change up if necessary during the season as well.
Bdl
It started as an innocuous enough $$$ comp but it was taken a bit too personal by an agent for a certain player and snowballed from there. I think it’s over with…unless you continue to bring it up 😉
Bdl
And I should have been more precise…what is the opined plan for this offseason to correct issues?
Buch has always had a bit of nasty going back to 2017-2018
I would jump at the chance to land Joel Eriksson Ek from the Wild. Trade Kreider and Chytil to the bees for Fredric and DeBrusk?
BDL mail of the E form.
Everyone else- no mail of any kind.
Fwiw, I don’t think it’s just the centre position that has held them back. It’s been a major issue for sure, but I also think the lack of impact physical players (they don’t really have one other than Trouba at times and Lemieux was at times) in the lineup is a real problem.
Buch performed above and beyond at ES; would be VERY interested to see how both he and Krieder perform away from Meeka. Saw they both produce better with Stromeo in a small sample size.
93 is a human highlight reel but not really a center focused on helpers or able to grind in ozone; it’s all one and done, in and out, feast or famine.
Him being moved was only going to happen with the brass being pushed out. Give Dolan props for that.
Bobby I can’t forget about Howden if you keep saying his name
Wicky,
What I would attempt to do is this,
First off I would sign both Hyman, and Danault as UFAs. Over pay if you have to. This fills two big needs, and adds depth for the following. I’d go all in on any big name that pops free in the trade market. Eichel, Tkachuk, etc. everybody except Lafrenier and Kakko could be had. I mentioned above what I’d do with Strome (trade), and Meeka (play out contract).
I think Kreider has a full nmc for the first 3 years of his deal. Not sure if he’d waive it even for Boston.
I wonder if Capt Clutch had a sit down with Meeka this summer and let him know what direction they are going, if he would waive or at least open up his NMC to a select number of teams.
Clutch may be boxed into a corner if Meeka goes all gangbusters on the scoresheet this season with NO covid hangover and a limited EDM concert schedule in Europe…
Bdl
I like the idea of danault at 3C but it starts to become a cost prohibitive 3rd line with him and Kreider.
At 2C, you wonder what danault could do offencively. Is his left wing panarin or Lafrenière?
Kreider has 3 more years on a full NMC and then a 15 team partial, with all the bonuses paid out prior so cash basis of $5M per year.
Hope they can survive with him in the lineup…
One thing I can’t get out of my head about the past few years is the players and their seeming ability to dictate roster decisions.
Panarin wanting strome (presumably as his centre) and Buch and Meeka “reportedly” being despondent at the possibility of Kreider being moved.
I like the thought of the tightness of players but is it for the right reasons? I mean did the hedgehog get bullied by a few players re Kreider? Does it not seem a bit odd that Kreider was re-signed to a long contract and given a substantial deal and as a vet player on the club not given the “C” with that extension?
Does it not seem like that should have been a no brainer but with how it played out it almost feels like the hedgehog was like “fine, I don’t want to do this but you guys are upset so I will”?
Kreider is similar to Hank and Eli (not in accomplishments), in that all 3 of them should have left their teams to go somewhere to win. All three chose to stay out of misguided loyalty.
SN
He’s only in the lineup sometimes because he’s a bit injury prone, so they’ll probably manage.
the purpose of the Kreider re-sign was was to have impact physical player …but ….
Bdl
I love the tkachuk idea…really love it!
You can do Danault at 3C but and deal with costs by moving Buch
Bobbyo
Exactly, such potential and promise prior to price. Still good a serviceable player after, just leaves you always wanting more.
I think it was James the other day that said maybe a different coach can get him back to a mind set where he becomes an actual impact physical player.
What does the eichel do to the whole process?
It has to mean the end of strome this offseason correct?
Wouldn’t eichel also make a danault signing prohibitive as well
Only fair to mention that Danault hasn’t been great in the post season thus far and his line was just broken up for game 3.
I’m not hating on the guy and he obviously checks a lot of boxes but let’s not get carried away with the aggressiveness in which they pursue him.
Another option fwiw would be to retain Strome at a modest price and put him at RW on Panarin’s line while placing a new center between them. But at that point you want a center that’s a shoot first/only shoot kind of center.
James moving guys to different positions again.
Poor poor McDavid
Yes, Wick. I had said that what Kreider needed at the time of the Price incident was a coach that steadied him a bit and didn’t allow him to start holding back. Keep in mind, CK was only 22 years old at that point. He wasn’t a hardened vet.
With the right coach (not a pacifist type like AV or Quinn) he may just have the encouragement to bring it back to that level. Or maybe not. I’m not sure.
LMAO, BDL. Hypocrite much? “Put Kreider at RW. It has to be done. He has no choice! Zibanejad to wing too. And Chytil too”
Strome actually came here as a wing btw. While he was drafted as a center he was in one of those Bennett type situations in Edmonton and even towards the end of his tenure with NYI.
Just saying…
Torts could get Kreider going and Panarin already familiar with him…don’t really buy into this nonsense of him choosing his centers and Torts would put an end to that anyway
As of today, May 25, 2021, does anyone really believe that McDavid wants to remain an Oiler when his contract is up?
Kreider played like a beast in the post season under Torts.
And it’s not that I’m trying to advocate for Panarin getting the linemates he wants (though most teams do accommodate their star players. Their opinions DO tend to hold more weight than that of a few fans lol)
I just leave out the other stuff about Strome because you guys don’t want to hear it. Who cares if he’s a good ranger, a good teammate or this or that. right?
James
I want to hear it
Know what Strome is? Matt Cullen 2.0. The guy that the fans cannot wait to get rid of that they’re watching years later going “oh we could use a guy like that”.
James I like Stromeo and Gorton should have locked him longer but the mix needs to change…somewhere …somehow…so it may be him
Can you imagine if the rangers would have hired a retread coach line trotz instead of the new thinking move of DQ?
BDL,
re: your 11:41am- Kreider is still only 29. He’s not 39 like those other guys.
Bobby I agree but as much as some want to see what would be considered radical change, we aren’t going to see that.
You can divide this roster into two groups as it pertains to where they’ll start to make changes:
Group 1: The first group to be altered
Howden, Chytil, Gauthier, Blackwell, DiGi, Hajek, Jones,
Buchnevich, Georgiev, Rooney
Group 2:
Barron, Kravtsov, Kreider, Miller, Strome, Mika
Group 1 will probably see at least a 50% turn over by next training camp mostly from free agency and internal promotions.
Group 2 will be in tact unless there is a big time move that can be made. That move would most likely cost them at least one of these players plus a player/combination of players from group 1/prospects.
How to get to here….
Lafrenière eichel hyman
Panarin strome mattka
Kreider Bennett kakko
Barron Coleman goodrow
Miller Trouba
Lindgren fox
Robertson Schneider
Neo
Darius
😉
Realistically, I’d be happy with 4 new forwards for next season from the last game of this season but I really believe at least one needs to be a top 6 winger with bite.
Pageau
BLAST!
Has everyone here given up on goat boy?
Can somebody explain me distinctly all this obsession with Mr. Problemsolved – Danault? His statistic IMO, less than impressive, so, what tangibles or intangibles, I don’t know, warranted that? Seriously.
Another funny thing, than…Why nobody ever mentioned C – Evgeny Kuznetsov, whos days in Caps are numbered – they will definitely trade him this summer and it could be done at reasonable terms. Guy has some character’s issues, indeed, but could be surprisingly perfect partner with Panarin, replacing Strome (who can be traded or centred 3rd line) .
OK, it is just for fun and another nonsensical, petty talk.
James,
The writing was on the wall for all three. The winning was over. Time to move on and try and win elsewhere. Even if Drury has the perfect offseason, how long before they are legitimate contenders? 2, or 3 years? Maybe longer? Kreider should have left.
The problem isn’t at 1C imho because unless there’s something most of us are missing the 1C for this organization going forward starting next season it’s most likely Meeka or eichel, the real question is the 3 centres behind them and how to address that.
A less talked about problem but also very key is the RW1 for the 1C that is pretty obviously not in the organization at the moment and also needs to be very impact physically present consistently in games.
Clearly we need heat maps to solve this
James,
I listened to a lot of podcasts last week bc I was driving so much. And I ended up listening to all the current podcasts so I then went back and listened to a bunch of these podcasts, their playoff previews and prediction. Ufff, some of them did not age well. They know who they are. Cough cough servalli’s podcasts.
Can I get a podcast? I’d love to do a bonehead podcast. We find out who the most tech savvy bonehead is to be the producer, then we get other regulars to be the main hosts with me. And we review every game. We do a morning after show, and the rest of the boneheads send in audio questions or comments or come on for a rant they have in mind.
I bet my zzz it would take off
Then we take the throne from the spittin chiclet guys and make our own liquor lines. Manly liquor. None of this Pink fruity BS. Russian vodka and hair burning bourbon.
The only other viable option I can see other than one of the two most likely 1C candidates listed above as the going forward top C , is make strome your 1C (he’s going to cost the least while still being productive) and load up the centre stack behind him with 3 higher end two way centres and load up on $$$ on the wings.
If the ‘rumor’ that Meeka and Butch had ANY influence on roster decisions (very hard to believe on many levels); JD and Gorts should have been fired on the spot. Its no wonder players want to come here, earn big bucks, show up when you want, tell the brass who you should play with and keep.
Playoff? Who cares, you only get paid during regular season…
SN
100% correct
Right on wicky.
Nothing says you can’t make Panarin/stromes line the #1 scoring line and then have 2 heavy matchup/scoring centers behind them.
If we can control the pace of the game with our 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines and let our 1st line Panarin/strome/and a physical PITA 3rd guy do their own thing against the best offensive matchups/deployments possible. You can win that way
Seeing as how we have not yet named a coach; I would think Drury is waiting for one of the playoff caches to be available.
Again, not sure who first posted the Meeka and Buch thing on here about that but carp also mentioned it.
No idea on the validity of it but if you believe the panarin strome thing, not too hard to connect the dots I suppose.
JPP I used to help run a fan site called the faceoff circle (poor man’s HF)
And we would do a podcast on Sunday nights. One of the guys I was with was Chris Wassel who does a fantasy hockey piece on NHL radio once in a while.
It’s something f I’ve considered an interesting option for here but no one wants to even read my posts let alone listen to me for 30 minutes 😉
Yeah I mean if Panarin is insisting on playing w Strome and Mika is insisting on playing w Buchnevich it’s really only one person getting accommodations if you think about it.
Not that I’d put it past Quinn to throw a first line of Panarin-Z-Blackwell out there..
::shudders:: glad he’s gone lol
I’m with BDL
I have to be honest. I don’t really like any of our 3 centers where they are.
I personally believe all 3 are better suited on the wing on a winning team.
I would completely rehaul the center position
BDL it’s not that I don’t see your point I’m just saying he has time. Let’s say they manage to win in 7 years. He’s on the team as a 36 year old role player/vet wing.
Re-tool the rebuild!!
What has to be clearly defined here is 1C and 2C.
What’s our first line? The one w Panarin? Because he’s one of the best players in the world and one of the highest paid players in the NHL..
Or is our first line Zibanejad’s line regardless of who he is out there with as his wings?
Is Panarin on the “second line” because Strome is considered 2C?
What if you went…
Panarin strome mattka
Lafreniere Bennett kakko
Kreider Getzlaf kravtsov
Marchment Barron Reaves
I mean those are just name examples etc. I would think in the scenario of strome being the theoretical 1C, your 2C and 3C would both need offencive upside and your 2C would need a definite impact physical component as well.
James if our game reviews are informative and ranger fans start getting the jist of that, they will listen just to sponge the insight and use it as their own when they are talking rangers in their circles.
All these lurking readers would listen the same way they stop here to read the insight.
I need to start making some currency off hockey. I can’t lie and say I don’t realize listening to these podcasts and reading articles and blogs, that I would be really good at it.
Heck if it starts with a fun blog podcast that leads into something a year or more down the line. That’s the way life unfolded. You make your breaks man.
Our blog is missing a Podcast in this day and age
Me
You
Wicky
BDL
Train CCCP to be the producer.
And then every show we have the rest of the boneheads audio record their questions or rants and we play them and answer/retort/chirp
There’s a ton of potential here
…Nice, but also, potential of total satiety of talks per se.
James your the host
BDL is the no nonsense old guy who’s ornary but very cut and dry with his points and it’s validity
Wicky is the FU hockey is tough, grow a set, this is the way hockey is supposed to be played guy
And I’ll be the ‘crazy Irish guy from brave heart’ who can’t help but ooze innate/natural understanding and love for the game and the skinny skinny of how it should be played and who plays with heart and soul.
CCCP will be the producer.
ILB will be bettman and only show up to school everyone and then leave
The minx will be a regular audio contributor.
‘The minx has spoken’ will become a thing. He will have to create a Twitter account where he uses an avatar like he is a swarmi or the give me a quarter I’ll tell you your fortune guy headgarb. And ‘the minx has spoken’ will become a viral thing.
To Jeff’s point, root for the Islanders tomorrow…I know its hard but if that makes Sullivan available than its worth it
Is Arneil available (ducks)?
I’ve been thinking about this.
Don’t expect Burke or hextall as rival GM/president to do us any favors and make a swift decision on Sullivan. They will probably take their sweet time. A week or 2 even if they do fire him.
You’d think they would wait and hope the rangers feel like they can’t sit on their hands and hire someone else.
Don’t they want to roll out the red carpet for their former coach they just fired to step right into the head coaching role of your emerging rival
It’s one thing for a player to request a line mate (or request not to play with somebody 😉) and quite another to press mngt on re-signing a veteran. Somewhat Plausible that it may have happened; actually bat sheet crazy if that factored into their decision.
James – watched Habs last night, thought Denault was fine; didn’t see Steve Austin, the $6M man out there.
Oscar Goldman was nowhere to be found.
I don’t want to see the Ghost of Mike Keane in the form of another overpaid UFA gritty forward who spit the bit.
SN it reminds me of the Zucc thing. “They’re trading all my friends so now I’m sad and my game has gone to hell”.
I don’t like to think of Panarin as that type of player especially with the loot he’s making but it’s best to handle it gently because that’s the way of the world.
We’ve seen it burn teams like SJ and Chicago too. It’s almost as bad as your vets crying the blues and getting a coach fired.
Then those same vets get traded or bought out over the next 4 seasons…
As for Danault I feel like it’s certain elements of his game that people covet. That’s fine, but there may be an alternative solution that doesn’t involve signing a guy who is best equipped to be a 3C to a 2C contract for 7 years.
As he goes for the Pageau….
Speaking of podcasts, listened to one with Vince M on it and two takeaways
Only two untouchable players are Lafrenière and fox
Rangers looking to add two top 6 forwards, a winger for sure and a probably a centre (which might end up being a top 9)
I made a new post this one is getting aggravatingly long and is probably deterring convo for those chuckle faces on mobile apps
Jones lead the USA in TOI today. Why do I get the feeling that Jack Capuano is going to be the Rangers next head coach.
Would you be surprised if Rangers will make a trade for Ryan O’Reilly from Blues? Negatively or pozy?
NEW POST
NEW POST
WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT?? LOL
Wick
I totally agree with your 1:51 and I mentioned it I think yesterday, Lafreniere and Sly Fox the only Untouchables. I suppose it’s only appropriate, “The Minx has Spoken.”
You should decide the capacity of desk that you want. You can do it all from your computer in your home. Poker taking part in entails a large amount of winning and an worldwide popularity.