As you all know, Mats Zuccarello was finally traded to Dallas for a 2nd round pick in 2019( which becomes 1st if Dallas wins 2 playoff rounds ), and a 3rd round pick in 2020 ( which becomes 1st if Dallas re-signs him). The Rangers also retained $1.35M of his salary.
Despite all the outcry, Zuccarello was projected to bring back a second rounder and a B level prospect. Instead of B level prospect ( NY is full of these, btw) they got a 3rd rounder. And both picks can turn into 1 st round picks.
I am sure of one thing. Doesn’t matter what they get for Hayes. The response on social media, and amongst the fans, will be the same: Gorton stinks. Everyone, seemingly, knows the market better than he does.
As for the game. They won, that’s all I wanted. And my family had fun. But…I saw a couple of AHL games in my life. Both in Hartford, both some years ago. Deja vu all over again.
Click here to read Carp’s game review
111 responses to “Rangers-5, Devils-2”
FIRE SATHER!
Pretty big sacrifice for Dallas, by the way. On Monday they won’t have first rounders in 2019 and 2020, second rounder in 2019, and 3rd rounder in 2020. Even if they don’t win 2 rounds, they won’t have 1st and 3rd in 2020 until, and if, Zuccarello signs elsewhere in July.
The Rangers are at 43 out of 50 allowable contracts at the moment.
You know what it’s a shrewd move on Nill’s part as well. If the stars make the WCF, zucc like be a big part and they would gladly give up pick #27-28. Likewise if they do go on the run, Nill probably believes in the team’s trajectory and says even if we resign Zucc, we think we’re at least a 2nd round team again and it’s another pick in the late 20s. So if everything works out roses for the stars, then the rangers will get 2 late 1sts. That’s how nill looks at it
Hayes to Nashville?
The shrewd part is this. I’ve seen and read Dallas Stars’ fans wanting be stars to be major buyers on multiple players. Tying his 1sts up on conditionals, gives him a built in restraint.
Say he doesn’t want to give up the assets for stone, panarin with the possibility of not making the playoffs or getting knocked out early. But star’s fans did want them to be major buyers. Well now star’s fans are giddy at the surface level price and aren’t gonna roast nill for tying the 1sts up. If they lose, fans will be happy they didn’t pay the price for stone/panarin, and if they win 2 rounds and have that month of playoff hockey energy, fans will be ok with the 1st and will think they will be contenders next year and be ok paying a 1sr for an extended Zucc bc of the kind of factor he will be if they do get on a roll and win 2 rounds
FIRE ZUCCARELLO!
Could this become a win-win for both organizations.
Stars have had some success with European stars who aged well. To be honest, Dallas in general has a thing for European sport stars
Imagine Dallas-Tampa SCF? If that happens, and Tampa wins, the Rangers will have 3 first round picks
Could happen. But the picks would be, effectively, second rounders, no?
BobbyO
You’re kravtsov comments made zero sense to me…I must have lost something in translation
I mean listen- fans overvalue their players. First- Sometimes it’s because their team does it first with their asking prices (Detroit wants a R1 for Howard for Pete sake)
Second is when there’s a possiblity of a player going to a team who has prospects or players the fan covets. You can convince yourself of a lot of things when you have a pre conceived notion of what you want the roster to be in a year.
This is a smart deal by Dallas…
Pretty sure the draft this June is in Dallas and they want a first round pick for a home draft.
They hold on to that for now, and the only way they lose it is if they win two rounds aka make it to the conf finals…and I’m sure the fans would be stoked about being in the final 4 and care a lot less about the first round pick.
Smart pr move as well.
Kravtsov comments were more about fan overreaction to pick during draft than him being great player
Tax free Zucc in Dallas as well
Wow bad goal let up there by Murray
Vibing wicky
Coos-
Or you could say early second rounders are like 1sts.
Perhaps, jpp, but the lower you go….
BobbyO
Ah, so you think people were overreacting to kravtsov in a positive or negative way?
Negative for sure …Murray just let in another softie…Pens ain’t going far if he doesn’t wake up
Ranger fans I suppose do overrate our players. Rangers management seems to underrate..except when free agent hunting.
Gorton’s trades:
Is this draft in Dallas or Vancouver?
Latest news Hayes traded for mental patient who swears he is Jean Ratelle. Patient is known to sleep in Rangers footie pajamas (my wife actually got me a pair…..but I’m really Barry Beck). Ranger GM quoted as saying trade was worth the risk…you never know…he could actually be Jean Ratelle.
Wicky
It’s vanc
Last yr was Dallas
ILB
Is the 3 contract retention rule through June 30th or the end of a guys season including playoffs.
That would hamstring us in dealing an S dman and retaining salary if we do it for Hayes and they use that June 30 date
Thanks…well, screw that theory
https://nypost.com/2019/02/23/rangers-need-to-avoid-awkward-chris-kreider-deadline-limbo/
on kreider and some on zucc
March 5
Rangers at Dallas
The morning after.
Trading Zucc to a team fighting to make the playoffs is a smart move. The second could end up being a high to middle of the round pick. Much like they did with Grabner last year to the Devils.
Gorton got what Zucc is worth on the market. He’s 5’7″? 31 and a ufa,
this is exactly what James said yesterday the Rangers will replace him over the summer. That’s the plan (north-south) DQ guy. This is what the rebuild is about, out with the old in with the new. Of course some of the old will be retained during the transition aka Kreider, Mika, VC, etc. The Minx has spoken!
Out with the old, in with the new.
To the Zucc fanboys;
Well said Doodie.
If Gorton made this same deal tomorrow, he’d be accused of waiting too long.
Too many rumors flew around that made expectations unrealistic. And, let’s face it, he’s popular. Bad combo.
The only thing we knew for certain was that he was bringing back a Grabneresque return. I’ll also add that the fact that Rykov actually looks like he might be a guy adds to the disappointment in this trade. People will point at Grabner deal and say “we got a great prospect there!” Not realizing that at the time, he was a huge question mark.
Instead of an R2, we got a conditional R1. I don’t care if the condish is unlikely – that’s better than a straight R2. And instead of a questionable B-prospect, we got a 3rd that COULD be a first.
Conditions be damned, I argue that this is a better return than Grabner at the time.
I expect Hayes to be gone this morning. Same with McQuaid. Let’s spend Trade Day making hockey trades and pouncing on desperate GMs.
Zucc Scenarios in order of greatness:
– Dallas goes to WCF, he resigns. 2019 R1 and 2020 R1
– Dallas loses before WCF, he resigns. 2019 R2 and 2020 R1.
– Dallas goes to WCF, Zucc signs elsewhere. 2019 R1, 2020 R3.
– Dallas loses and Zucc goes elsewhere. 2019 R2 and 2020 R3.
So obviously we want Dallas to go to the Finals, Tampa to win the Cup, Zucc to sign in Dallas, and Dallas to then poop the bed in a big way. that 2020 conditional isn’t lottery protected.
We will soon learn if the #1 Line was more about Zucc’s resurgence or the chemistry between #20 & 93.
Good morning, boneheads!
Alex, I don’t remember seeing specifics on that issue in the CBA. But my guess is end of June. It says “for the length of player’s contract”, not season.
DaveB- thanks, but I’m not Doodie. Doodie is the original RR2, I’m just a pinch hitter. Though it looks like a permanent one.
Poor Carp; he kept telling the Fanboys that the market for Zucc was softer than they wanted to believe. Emotions are a powerful force, clouds the mind, can make grown men grovel at the feet of idolized athletes.
Addition by subtraction (ducks)
They did well yesterday, Papa. With Vesey on the wing. Man, Zibanejad is hard to knock off the puck. He is as elusive as some of these tiny players, but he also has size
One thing none of us mentioned. Carp got it right. The 2nd rounder by Dallas was the highest anyone offered.
I like how Gorts is sending these guys to teams they won’t have to face each other unless they win some rounds. Tampa, Dallas, Calgary. 3 separate brackets (unless Dallas has to cross over to play Calgary as a wildcard that is)
Especially considering we have conditionals with some of these teams.
There’s a vetted dude on HFrangers who for a year and a half now has been saying he has contacts with Dallas and they’ve been trying to trade for him. He called this trade yesterday he’s before it happened.
He also said Calgary is the front runner for Hayes (dman, 1st, +) and made a point of saying gorton is one smart hombre and that the rangers are looking like they are gonna get another boatload of assets and it’s gonna be up to the scouts and staff to pick the right prospects/players
Good morning everyone. This is for all you die hard Zucc fans:
Ahh – sorry ILB – I’m on mobile and missed the author mention.
You’re much better than that guy.
Of course he was buzzing from having called the zucc trade so who knows how much that played into his comments, but the guy has alluded he has connects with both dal/Calgary. And that’s me recalling how many times his info would be regarding Dallas and Calgary interest in players. Saying I know these guys really like this player, etc. and then he called the zucc trade
(To me that confirms the guy legitly is giving real info, and he’s doing it in a way both teams are cool with, it stirs fans interest and so long as trade secrets aren’t being released, the teams don’t care if it’s out there in the rumors, they can just deny it.
We also heard recently about “a lot of noise and action surrounding Zuccarello.” We don’t know what that means, though. Most likely it meant that 8 teams called Gorton offering 3rd rounders.
Rumors are rumors and they changed daily. The one constant over the months was “At peak value, Zucc is getting an R2 and prospect.”
Maybe if JG waited till Monday morning, a slightly better deal emerges. Maybe if he waits, it dries up. Who knows.
I’m sad that a longtime Ranger who obviously loved being one is gone. I’m disappointed that we didn’t get one of a handful of good young players I thought were attainable in a Zucc deal. I’m happy we didn’t pass on a golden opportunity add to our war chest in lieu of sentiment.
I’m very much okay with this return.
JPP,
I have zero connections to any team, and I called Zucc to Dallas weeks ago. The guys in the know kept saying Dallas was after Zucc. Sometimes times it’s easy to piece it together.
I won’t lie. Mika is now playing consistently shift after shift in a way that would have gotten us to the finals in 16-17. He’s engaged 200 feet. He’s proactive and pouncing on situations. That kind of mentality with his skill level. That’s what makes the great ones great
Dave,
It also could have been teams like Nashville and Calgary calling on Zucc. The Dallas second rounder is more valuable than either one of those teams second rounders.
Totally bdl. But this guy has been saying it for over a year that he thought Dallas was gonna be the one who stepped up
Dallas was the team they almost had a deal with last year, remember how Dallas didn’t make a move and missed and got roasted. 2 and 2
Other than going to traverse city and being willing to say hi to these guys and telling them what I THINK and then listening during the games to what they are saying amongst themselves. I got no connections either. As you said, sometimes it’s easy to piece things together, and as crazy hockey fans, it’s fun to piece things together, connecting dots, that’s the way the brain works, it makes sense we like doing that with the things we enjoy or care about
Jpp – prob unrelated but…
A few years back my father met a guy while golfing. My father is always meeting hockey people everywhere he goes, due to the fact that he only wears hockey apparel. Anyway – he played a round with someone who (if I remember correctly) was in the Stars organization.
This is around the time that Gorton was starting to take on more responsibility, and Sather was winding down. So they’re talking, and the guy says that he’s known Gorton for years, they came up together, etc etc. And that if Gorton ever got the job and was allowed to do his thing, we’d be in a great spot.
Separately – I always thought Dallas was a logical trade partner. Top heavy, money coming off the books, good amount of cap space – they have the room to add major rentals AND sign players if they so desired.
Best of luck to Zucc for many reasons including those picks going higher. He was a good Ranger. If he doesn’t re-sign in summer it won’t have anything to do with talent or playing style that Quinn likes…it will have to do with him looking for A 5 year deal at age 32
Well now that Zucc is gone, we’ll see what Hayes brings back. The market is what the market is, and I am sure that Gorton took the best deal he could find. Turns out that I will be in Dallas on the 5th so I will go to the game when the Rangers are there. This one, in particular was always going to be emotional no matter what they got for him. The mistake made by the Rangers was not moving him last deadline. Which puts the spotlight on to Kreider. What do they do with him? I suspect they want to re-sign him. We’ll see.
Guys name is BBKers on hfrangers
‘They have the best offer on the table right now I am told (Calgary for Hayes). But I know not what it is other than a young defenseman and a 1st. No details. We are snagging a lot of assets. And it is not over yet. JG is a very smart man I must admit. The future looks very promising if the scouts do due diligence’
As they stand right now, the Rangers have there own 1st, and three 2nds. That’s called stockpiling assets. If I recall correctly, they used the Devils second to move up and take Miller. Anybody here not excited about Miller?
From NYR twitter:
Our friends Wicky and James are in bubble wrap for today’s game. Have to be safe, never know what kind of trade market emerges!
Dave, for this entire season, and most of the end of last one, the posts have been written largely by ilb. He’s the best.
Here’s my two cents on the trade:
The return is fine. The expectation was Grabner’s return and we got essentially that, but with a risk/reward element to it. The 2nd rounder would be worth roughly the same as it was for the Devils. A lower seed team eliminated quickly results in a pick in the high teens/low 20s of the 2nd round. The risk is that none of the conditions are satisfied, in which case the 3rd rounder isn’t as valuable as a Rykov-esque prospect, who I would equate to a late 2nd rounder in value (totally subjective). But there’s tremendous upside. To be honest, I think the win 2 rounds condition is more likely than the re-sign Zuke condition, unless he is just magical in Dallas and/or he loves the tax-free paychecks. But the 2 rounds are possible, provided they stay in the Central. The Jets are not as good as people think. Their underlying numbers have been crappy for a long time and now their results are matching those numbers. Also, hellebuyck has not had the kind of year that he had last year. Nashville doesn’t really scare me without adding some significant pieces. They’re a one line team with a goaltender that gets the tips every year in the playoffs. Bishop is playing well enough that maybe they steal a couple of rounds. It’s possible is what I’m saying, even if not probable. So the upside of two firsts is huge, and it only cost a slight risk of downgrade (between 15-20 draft spots of value, in my subjective opinion).
That all said, I think Sather and Gorton did not do a good job with Zuccarello. Four years ago, we played hardball with Zuke and said “take this discounted deal or your out of here.” He caved, and we kept our player for a run for the Cup. But do you remember what the rumored trade offer/destination was? Cam Atkinson. I can’t be too angry about this because we were a good team with a good shot, but it’s just important to remember not to overvalue our own players.
No, the reason I’m upset about the Zuke trade is that he should have been traded last year. The return would have been closer to what we got for Nash. Tomas Tatar got a 1,2,3 from Vegas. Zuke could have returned at least that, especially with a team friendly contract for the next season.
So, given the asset mismanagement heading into the year, I’m happy with the return at the deadline. But the rebuild has not been done with enough foresight and conviction.
Either rebuild do yes or rebuild do no. Yo rebuild do guess so, SQUISH, just like grape.
I think Brooks/BDL is misunderestimating what THE will get on next contract assuming he continues playing at this level or slightly better. Really think $7/5 or $6.75/6 is more a floor with the way money is being tossed around.
In my mind. JD and Jarmo was doing the rangers a solid by going all-in and JD knew what it would mean for the rangers return. Rangers family man. Haha
Two seconds with the resign conditon would have been the best we could have gotten, but this return isn’t bad all things considered. Would be great if we could get an NHL ready forward for Hayes as have plenty of spots open for next year and only Kratsov in the hopper (absent winning the lottery). Rather not have to overpay free agents for all of those other spots.
Agree on Asset Management angle but also the fan appeal aspect may have played into it or, as Gorts, admitted to, not enough time/bandwidth to complete more trades given all the assets moving; McD, Nash, Grabs, Holden (I keed, I keed).
.
Over the summer might have been the best possible time so as not to disrupt the season and also prevent the fans tears from flooding the Hudson River in late Winter. Packaged with a 2nd or even 1st, does NYR obtain a high end prospect from Dallas or other suitors?
.
It’s all Dust in the Wind now. Because that’s all we are…
Doodie, don’t think a first was on the table last year or else he would have been moved. Likely same type of deal which they should have taken last year if so as having him here this year only kept the fans happy and nothing else
Beezle,
I would hope by now the Rangers would have a pretty good idea of what Kreider may cost, and if the plan to re-sign him.
So if Calgary is offering a young D, it’s probably Kylington. I’d prefer Andersson (RHD) or Vallimaki, but Kylington is nice.
Re: the ILB/Doodie confusion – my brain has bad gas.
Outside of Lone Wolf and Lazy Haze, which are the most likely players to be moved?
VC
Names
Fast
Stromeo
.
Sharty
Staalled
Smitty
Shea Butter
Pickles
RR2 my only disappointment in the Topo deal that is, not was or should’ve been, has been the conditional nature of the picks. I just don’t value the optionality very highly and would have preferred a hard 2nd and some type of prospect or even a better one and the 2020 3rd.
If Dallas ends up in but out the first round, that 2nd is probably the 16th pick (47th overall) If they win the two rounds it will be a R1 28th pick or lower. I can’t see any rational circumstance they resign Zuc and give up a 1st so the 3rd in 2020 remains so.
Agree on unlikelihood of Dallas re-signing Zucc…way more possible that Bishop steals a few rounds…not crazy Helleybuck
Beez, at the end of the day Gorton probably decided the optionality was his best bet.
I don’t think GMs ever get exactly what they want for a player and especially this year in a buyer’s market there’s going to be a big gap between price tag and offer unless it’s for a guy like Stone. It’s tough to sell a 30 year old rental who didn’t produce the first half of the season.
With that said I think we would have been happier with the return last year.
If all of the action that was supposedly going on regarding Zucc inquiry is correct, then my guess is most teams didn’t think he was worth more than a 3rd and 4th or perhaps a 3rd and a ham and egger prospect.
Moving forward I wish him luck (the better he likes Dallas and the more they succeed the better it is for us)
The big thing to note as of now is the Rangers’ lack of RW depth. Buchnevich, Fast, Chytil and I guess Strome too if need be.
Russian Rangers community is mourning the loss of Zucc HARD! Beautiful eulogies all around! lol
“It’s not fair to Zucc! Why didn’t they trade him to the cup contender?” “Zucc deserves better!” “OMG! I’m done with this franchise!” “Whhyyyyyy?!?!?!”
…and my personal favorite: “Why trade the most important player?! They are a step away from the cup! Why not trade for more pieces and contend now?!” This guy clearly lives in a completely different stratosphere!
MATS ANDRÉ ZUCCARELLO AASEN. FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS!
Eklund has the Fishsticks making a hard run at Panarin, and secondarily Stone.
I don’t see how JD would trade Panarin to the F-sticks given he already traded for Duchesne. I would assume the Fishsticks or any other team would have to blow the doors off to pry Panarin away from Columbus.
If he wants to give 100%, Hazie could put a couple close clubs over the hump. Our return should be healthy.
I told you Russian community wasn’t taking this very well LOL… here you go!
https://www.change.org/p/new-york-rangers-fire-jeff-gorton
So when we discuss how Zucc should have been traded last year, does that mean THE should be traded today or tomorrow?
The amount of flipping out on Ranger Twitter and the amount of people who can’t prove there was/would be a better offer are directly related.
Howdy partner! I’m Zucc the yokel!
http://i66.tinypic.com/21j38dd.jpg
Hopefully this season is the termination of the sell-off phase of rebuild.
Thanks for talking me off the ledge with the trade. Good to see different perspective. That’s why I came here even though I haven’t been able to much lately.
Agree trading MZA last year would have been the right move, especially with this being a rebuild year. I suppose you can use the reverse argument for THE if you think they’ll be competing again next year.
I don’t see columbus trading Bobrovsky or Panarin. The Bluejackets know there window is slowly closing so there going for it.
I’m pretty sure this season is the last of the restock phase judging by roster composition, gorton comments, pr letter brilliance, and the short on the fly turnaround time table gorton said he would use.
Gravy why? Manny/booby personalities won’t let you see the light much? 🙂
Feel bad for those “it’s a full rebuild going to take a while folks”, the smart ones are realizing they we’re wrong now and don’t seem happy.
If it’s calgary…I agree with who posted earlier that’s it’s probably kylington (my least fave of the 3 d prospects) but Anderson would be the real coup of the trio.
Rangers should already know if they are willing to pay Kreider’s likely price and hopefully they have a sense if he is open to staying. If they are just going to give a halfhearted offer like they did for Hayes last year (right move in that case in my opinion) then he should be move at this deadline and if not then at draft or offseason. Rather not be doing the same thing with Kreider next year st this time, especially as it’s likely when you would get the lowest return
Lol, Keith made Mathew and Brady shake hands and promise they wouldn’t fight before last nights game.
Except wick they don’t have nearly enough in the pipeline currently or coming vía immediately obvious trades or draft picks (again barring us getting a top 3 pick) for them to be that competitive next year even if they sign one or two big free agents and a couple lower level ones.
Pay Kreider. Simple as that.
Shame that we have to go after defensemen after all the time and money we devoted to that position already over the past few seasons.
Pay the. Hobbit in lima beans and krones.
Rasmus Andersson would be an enormous get. Unfortunately it’s probably not him, but one can dream.
Andersson would also mean that a subsequent trade of Shattenkirk or Pionk is likely.
what I’m really trying to say is: buy your Kylington jerseys now.
Only wish THE were more vociferous and a tad more snarly. He coulda been a great one.
Yea another mid to bottom pair lefty D prospect is not what we need! But also don’t think we have that many good D prospects in reality, just a lot of middling lefty ones
Wicky – based on Millenial twitter reaction to Zucc trade, not many read the letter…
Perhaps today/tomorrow will being a big surprise like Miller included in the McD trade to Tampa. Like the Rangers have traded Kevin Hayes AND Chris Kreider to Boston for Charlie McAvoy, Trent Frederic and a #1 pick. How wild would that be?
Pete
It’s the organizational plan, not mine. Don’t be mad at me because I called it from the beginning.
The rangers can re-sign kreider after July 1 I think.
I’ll be shock if Gorton trades Kreider.
Wicky
Still think they won’t sign more than 1 big money Ufa this summer. Add a couple of 1-2 million types as well.
So I’m not sure what that does to your thinking that it’s not a rebuild. Only you can answer that.
I think THE’s snarl got stunted early in his career when he was being called for virtually every check he threw.
While everyone should be “available”, I think it’s the panarin approach (or what jarmo says he’s doing) and the offer would have to blow you away to move him.
Not mad at you, just not sure the Rangers have a clear plan yet. If they spend $30m in free agency you can say I told you so, but still wouldn’t be that good a team and don’t think they can do that without clearing off two of those bad d contracts. My guess is they throw a bunch of money at Panarin and a couple lower level guys, but not sure Panarin will want to come here unless he or Kreider is moving to right wing as we don’t have an obvious 2nd line center he’d want to play with
I’d trade THE to get Amanda Borges back.
BREAKING: Kevin Hayes was just traded to the “It’s Sugar” candy store for a box of Abba-Zaba!
Go Time Post in 3 minutes. After that, I’ll be out for the entire day until late. But while writing the post, I realized this: the SC Champs won 7 games more than NY Rangers as of now. They are 2nd in Metro, while NY is 10 points out of the wild card race. There is no reason they can’t be competitive next season in this league!
Alex
I stated numerous times, so no need to waste time explaining it to you again.
Sorry the organization isn’t doing what you’ve been saying but just move on and cross your fingers like the rest of us that they make some good draft picks.
Everyone’s wrong about things (hell, Even i was wrong about the draft locations last night), you’re wrong about this long term thing…move on, no biggie.
NEW POST
3 minutes…3 MINUTES!!!!!