Good morning, boneheads!
There was no contest winner, we’ll do it later today again. Around 4 pm.
I forgot the rules governing the preseason games roster requirements in terms of how many NHL players they have to dress for each game. I wonder if yesterday’s roster would be allowed in September.
Lundqvist absolutely gave them an opportunity to at least get a point, even though he whiffed on the GWG. But that was some shot! SN had right- there is one NHL player in bottom 6. His name is Jesper Fast
It won’t get easier tonight, that’s for sure.
104 responses to “Rangers-1, Avalanche-3”
Can you repost it, DaveB?
Some interesting stuff.
Need Haze and Grabber back to have a chance this trip. Hopefully Haze got the right ‘medicine’ in Denver to allow him to heal quicker.
.
Daniel Catenacci – who? wha? why? When you are playing AHL level Buffalo cast-offs, tough to get it going. Had a 27% CF.
.
As much as NYR needed a top 6 center, would Duschene been a flop here as well? 10 pts in 13 games with Avs and then 13 in next 30 w/ Sens. Would AV’s O-first strategy created more ops.
.
Relying on break-aways and occasional PPG is not a winning strategy out West.
God trading Zubov was so dumb! Mess, Colin and Smith all had their fingerprints on that debacle
Yessir ILB.
Now that I have the whole firesale thing in my head, and I’m looking back at 2004, I’ve gone down the internet rabbit hole of trade trees. Some trade tree wither and die immediately. Some take interesting turns. Fact – the Bruins are still reaping the benefits of the Cam Neely trade over 30 years ago (via the additional R1 they received). Here’s a crazy Ranger trade tree:
The Vanbiesbrouck/Weight/Lafleur Trade Tree
(To be the seed of a Trade Tree, you need to be drafted with a pick your team originally owned, or signed as a free agent)
– John Vanbiesbrouck drafted in 1981 – Traded for Doug Lidster
– Doug Weight drafted in 1990 – Traded for Esa Tikkanen
– Guy Lafleur signs with Quebec – Rangers receive R5 pick in 1990 as compensation – Draft Sergei Zubov
– Doug Lidster and Esa Tikkanen traded for Petr Nedved
– Petr Nedved and Sergei Zubov traded for Luc Robitaille and Ulf Samuelsson
– Luc Robitaille traded for Kevin Stevens
(The Kevin Stevens branch of the trade tree ended in a motel room in St Louis)
– Ulf Samuelsson traded to Detroit for R2 (David Inman) and R3 (Dominic Moore)
– Dominic Moore traded for Adam Hall
– Adam Hall traded for Pascal Dupuis
– Pascal Dupuis traded for Alex Bourret (oops)
– Alex Bourret traded for R3 (Tomas Kundratek)
– Tomas Kundratek traded for Francois Bouchard
– Trade Tree ends when Bouchard goes to Europe.
Anyway, we might see the Scott Gomez trade tree go to some interesting places fairly soon.
Pete,
From what I recall on the Zubov trade, that was mostly Campbell. He had a thing for Zubov and Kovalev from back when he coached them in the minors. Campbell held a grudge from what he believed was Kovalev, and Zubov quitting on him.
It’s amazing to see the diminishing returns at every single level of that tree
Post-Cup, that is
Daniel Catenacchi is what happens when you get cute with call ups. i get the thought of calling up a veteran from the minors, but why not a good AHL veteran. Cole Schneider type.
Boneheads – its a nice day outside (in the metro area). I say that lest you guys come up with a reason to fire the sun and claim the clouds are not lined up properly! St Pete Eli will certainly sell off half of them before the 2pm deadline 🙂
In a game they could have been steam rolled by the hot team with a great first line, made more likely with Grabner out, it was a game until the very end. I know, moral victories don’t count, but sometimes I think we are a bit too harsh with our assessments.
Hopefully with the improved offense that a return of Grabner and Hayes bring, the team continues to play this slightly better version of defense. Minority view – none of the teams in the east scare me as NYR have beaten them all. None of these teams have a big enough edge that I would bet money they make to cup finals. Not into Pburgh mystique either.
Beezle,
The sooner you accept what is about to happen, the happier you will be when it does.
Fire AV! All day, everyday!
Beezle = Norm?
Oh, and F filthy! Go Vikings!
Beezle-funny thing about the East is that they can stick to what we all hope they should do ( fire sale) and still make the playoffs
BDL, Carp likely knows better than us all, but I have also heard Messier wanted a tougher type of defenseman. In any event, Smith pulled the trigger so he surely has a lot of blame. Coli didnt like either Zubov or Kovalev, which is a shame because we don’t win the Cup without those two guys and could have been cornerstones of our franchise for decades if retained and coached properly
Messier also couldn’t stand Nedved, IIRC
Well nor could I Dave!! Still not sure I ever saw Nedved take a slapshot!
Nedved is/was E3’s favorite enforcer.
Great job, DaveB! That was awesome work on your part
Not sure why anyone would want the organization to hold onto mediocrity. My only guess is that some fans around here don’t pre date the mid 2000s and really don’t know what the last 25+ years have been like for some of us.
Is this accurate, Dr?
re: shatty news, I am SO mad. injections make the scarring worse and the surgery more intensive. ”
the twitter doctors are spreading this around.
“actually it is true. cortisone shots add scar tissue, which obstructs the view of the meniscus or any ligament.
Messier had a hand in a lot of good players going out the door BUT
Colie was responsible for Zubov more so than Mess was. That trade hurt (Even the first post lock out year where Jagr set new rangers records saw Zubov putting up a 70 point season)
Worst part is it could have been prevented by Smith had he had the stones to stand up to his coach and his captain. Once he pulled the trigger on that one he was dead as GM and just didn’t know it yet.
I thought Nedved was worth a longer look, first time around. Not that I was sad to see him go. Though I always viewed that trade as Nedved for Samuelsson, Zubov for Robitaille. If Luc came over and scored like he should have, it makes that trade a bit more palatable.
Foghorn J. Leghorn
Sent too soon – anyway, Robitaille’s output and ROI is why I view trading Zubov as such a misstep – not Ulf’s contribution.
Regular season leading scorer for NYR in 93-94?
SN – I think it was that soft Russian kid with a ton of assists. I don’t see much in his future.
Zubi!!!
DaveB the worst part is that the one player who could have had a decent Rangers career was Dupuis who never even got a chance here.
Well said, ILB. Selling in the right fashion could be a shot in the arm but some fear it to be a death sentence.
No Tim, it’s not. Multiple steroid injections into the same site may create a problem, that’s why it’s not done too often ( 4-3 times a year ). In his case, he got one cortisone shot and one PRP injection. Didn’t work, but didn’t make it worse.
Whatever Donuts has, it obviously can’t be corrected by off-season surgery or it already would have been. Even so, he might still be our MVP for trade purposes. I for one will miss him and will always suspect that he was severely hampered and misused here by management and coaching.
Yeah Messier wanted “tougher” players which is why by the time he left for Vancouver we had nothing left but a 37 y/o Wayne Gretzky and a roster that was a ticking time bomb consisting of a bunch of vets on their last legs built around a handful of guys that never got enough help to do anything positive including Leetchy.
Well said, Coos. Shame that McD couldn’t do more to this point and that having a consistent partner has been overlooked for “the greater good” of the team
James
Since 1970 for me, frustrated and disappointed many times. I hate to think how long it may take to be on top again, but mediocrity stinks the house out! A shrewd GM is needed this deadline, hope Gorton is up to it!
Totally James. I do think Dupuis’s offense had a ton to do with who he wound up playing with in Pitt, but he could’ve been a great 3rd liner, or ridden shotgun on the 2nd, for another 5-6 years with us.
From the dept. of corrections, 2 NHL players in bottom six.
Ironic how the two conversations this morning interconnect. Talk of the past mistakes the organization made in trying to stay competitive instead of shedding vets and the present situation about where they’re headed /if they’ll choose to head there
So far, Gorton’s large old rep has slid to less than brilliant, so stated as to be kind.
Think AV is a good coach and there are roster and injury issuesbut all coaches go stale eventually. Team has not put forth consistent efforts too often though and lacks passion. There are rumblings Quenville’s time it’s Hawks coming to end…..if that’s the case Gorton should be first in line
Eli I want to have sympathy for you as your brother in blue but every time I walk outside in 12 degree weather to warm my car up I think about the canopy roof top over at The Birchwood! You don’t have it that bad 🙂
There are a lot of shrewd GMs in this league. If you expect Gorton to fleece every one of them involved in the upcoming trades, you are setting yourself for a huge disappointment. McD for Gomez is an outlier, not a rule.
If a team is inconsistent and lacks passion, the coach must eventually be seen, like his team, as inconsistent and. lacking passion. This man is polite, but dull to the extreme, an admirable parish priest perhaps, but hardly a professional hockey coach.
It’s not a question of “fleecing,” but rather a matter of putting together an intelligent paradigm and filling it in cogently.
Funny James thanks for your support!
Totally agree, Coos. My general sense is a lot of fans expect every trade made by Gorton in February to be a home run. Won’t happen. I’m willing to accept what he does as long he sticks to his plan. Whatever that plan might be.
ilb2001
Good point on Shrewd GM’s but I am still hoping for the best!
I also suspect that no matter what he does, some of the fans will think the Rangers got fleeced. 🙂
The good news is that he truly has some good assets to sell in order to upgrade this team. Wasn’t the case for years.
Oh and by the way James it’s 65 today in St Pete just saying!
Right, ilb. So long as Gorton’s in power here, I back his decisions for my own mental health’s sake. 🙂
James et al – the league is mediocrity (parity). Building or trading for a dynasty is nearly impossible. The closest of late is Chicago and they benefited from two extremely high first rounders that actually lived up to expectations. Maybe our kids in the minors do too and I look forward to seeing them when people a lot smarter than me think they are ready. Maybe that is March and a player like Zuc becomes expendable.
But I’m not for a wholesale fire sale/rebuild or trading just to “do something” as often happens in sports. Please reference Jets, Mets and Nets for our local examples of trading/rebuilding gone bad. If somebody is willing to take a rental flyer on Nash for a *good return*, fine. Will they? Not sure one week will change minds. I’ll skip the debate of value vs return available on others.
No, I’m not Normsky and can be just a disgusted with poor play as anyone else – I’m rarely the fountain of positive thoughts like him. But I do want the team to make the playoffs and if healthy, think they have as good a shot as any. Seen enough long odds dogs go to finals and/or win championships in sports to not discount an ECF or better. Odds are against, but they are against every team every year.
The very fact that Gorton of Gloucester has so many good vegetables to shop tells me that AV ain’t the right Coach to cook here.
If Captain McD winds up exiting sooner rather than later, I look at the Yandle trade as slightly lower than the baseline should be. The R1 needs to be in the top 12. The young player coming back better be a stud, along the lines of Mitch Marner or Jesse Puljujarvi. I want an additional mid-rounder than conditionally becomes a first rounder if they go deep. I want another condition to kick in if he re-signs.
#1 Defensemen at a bargain price for 2 seasons don’t grow on trees.
“From the dept. of corrections, 2 NHL players in bottom six.” Norm, two of our players have done hard time? Lol
Players who ride the Pine grow on trees.
Leaving aside talent level, this “AHL” team we iced yesterday played with more spirit and moxie than I’ve seen in quite a while here.
Ilb
Great job sir!
Dave
Also great work!
Coos – the most uninspired part of yesterday’s game, minus the fact that they lost, was their reaction after Buch scored. These guys know the party’s over for a lot of them.
TommyG
I remember you from back in the dam time (I think it was Sam) with tomG and there was a tomB also…one of you lived in Alaska at one point iirc
There was also another raiders on the blog…SN maybe?
Carp would love all the old names being brought up!
coos
Can’t be effective with splinters in you can!
Steve Zipay
Verified account
@stevezipay
Rangers and Knicks at Staples Center here in L.A. today. Last time the NYers played same day in building other than MSG was in Boston Garden, Feb. 3, 1957, per Elias. BTW, Blueshirts lost 4-1, Knix fell 116-98. #Iwasntthere #willhistoryrepeat?
I hate everybody, Wick.
Of course everything went through Messier in those days, but I don’t believe he wanted Zubov out. In fact I highly doubt it. Mess had a far bigger hand in the Kurri-McSorley deal. … I still maintain that if Robitaille played to the back of his hockey card, that wasn’t a horrible trade for a team that felt it had a shot those years. And Zubov did repeatedly turn away from contact and cough up the puck instead during the previous playoffs. Whatever.
Zucc, no goals in a month. 1 goal in his 18.
Beezlebub, I am hardly a fountain of optimism here during games–I am taken to task, for example, if I note a bad play by a Player We Like. (Also, of course, if I note a good play by a Player We Hate.)
Wicky – I have Pride and Poise & Commitment to Excellence to Raider Nation but I fuggin hate the Gruden deal – 3 Steps back IMHFO
beezle
Certainly not half the team, and I’m not expecting miracles. But am hoping Gorton sells as wisely as possible. It’s time this organization begins to change it’s philosophy and continues building through the draft.
And very sensitive to boot.
Life is irony…
And to add I would rather see a young team busting their butts giving a full 60 min’s. than vets playing shuffleboard!
Anyone staying up to watch the game tonight?
Hayes 1-1-2 in his last 8, Vesey 1-0-1 in his last 9, Topo one goal last 17, McDonagh zero goals all season, DD one goal last 21, SkjeL zero points last 14 and zero goals last 35, Buchnevich had gone 14, I think, before scoring that gimme that my Great Aunt Tillie could have scored vs. Buf., Nash had gone 12 without a goal before the little two-game outburst, Letteiri no goals in seven since scoring in his debut, and Brass… er, I mean Zibanejad has done next to squat at even strength.
Wicky, I’ve lived on LI my whole life, actually I’m the only sibling who has, my 2 sisters were born in brooklyn, so was my parents and I’m no raiders fan, that’s for sure.
meant to say, so were my parents, yikes, my fingers type faster than my brain thinks.
don’t see the rangers winning anything on this road trip, should make it easier for Gorton to sell!, sell!, sell!…
AV, hardly a professional hockey coach, has pulled off the greatest con job in the history of the league, as year after year his players overcome this charlatan to post good records.
I do understand that AV is on his way out, by the way, but there’d better be a plan to bring in someone at least as good–there aren’t many better. Hockey has become as bad as soccer in terms of keeping coaches around for 2 or 3 seasons. Cooper and AV are the 2nd and 3rd longest tenured coaches after Quenneville, and they’re only in their fifth seasons. The impatience is often justified as follows: Cup-winning teams often have first- or second-year coaches at the helm. Even though all teams fit that bill. Sort of like that non-stat, 90% of accidents occur within 10 miles of home… where 90% of the drivers are. Chicago would be INSANE to fire Quenneville. But they’ll do it.
Thanks. I can’t stand know-it-alls. Everyone on twitter is a doctor too these days.
Many here were doctors, too, until ilb ruined it for everyone.
I wonder if McD is wearing down prematurely like Graves and Klein. He is not skating like he did a few years ago which is his greatest strength. Whoever signs him may be paying for past performance that he is unlikely to duplicate, especially in the out years of the contract. Back problems can take away strength and flexibility. No catastrophic injury. Just a drop off in results.
Any I am NOT a doctor.
Just like Pitt was insane for firing Blysma.
What? They won 2 cups without him after had he won a Cup?
Never mind…
Dammit Norm! I’m a doctor, not a…um…er… oh, nevermind!!
I, too, am not a doctor.
Count me as one who thought Bylsma’s firing was a mistake … and that Smilin’ Sully would fail (full disclosure).
But both coaches show/prove how smart you can be when you have three or four absolute star players. And how dumb you can be when you don’t.
Carp
You can’t say things like that about skjeL.
Point out obvious things about him and people will say you hate him (as you know).
He is in zucc territory of just flawless on the ice. Everyone will notice the slightest bobble by some players, but glaring mistakes by skjeL are anyone’s fault but his.
His career arc is becoming very similar to del zotto’s.
Anything over $3.5 per for him is an overpay.
Hey, if the three stooges can be doctors, well, you know, yuk!, yuk!, yuk!
Dammit Eddie! I’m an actor, not a doctor!!
SN, that’s a good illustration of the point I was trying to make.
Beezle, dynasty? I’ll take contending.
This team hasn’t contended for 3 years now. They’ve remained competitive and held ground in a conference that has a lot of teams close in the standings.
With that said, running in place isn’t a solution. The remaining vets on this team have had their share of chances to show they could get it together and win a championship and we’ve all seen what’s happened. Untimely slumps, pourous defense, being no shows some nights, inability to play a full 60 minutes, veterans getting the opportunities while young players who need to develop ride the pine or share 4th line duties, no real help from Hartford available and big contracts on players are worth 1/4-1/2 of them.
To keep that in tact because they aren’t drastically worse than teams like the islanders, blue jackets etc
in the standings is running in place IMO.
They need to start getting younger and carrying more flexibility when it comes to salary cap. It doesn’t mean they’re building a dynasty but it doesn’t mean they’re gonna “tear down” and be the hurricanes or Sabres for the next 5-10 years
Spot on about the coaches, Carp. Bylsma’s fate was sealed by Crosby’s level of play after the concussion stuff he went through. He sure wore out his welcome quickly in Buffalo thanks to the 80 million dollar kid.
Speaking of fires coaches, Has anyone broke the news to Florida Panther brass about who the coach is out there in Vegas yet?
Think gallant will win the jack Adams…duh
Aunt Tillie Carpiniello being given serious look by Gorton.
Doctor Srangelove
If Bylsma were spelled Blysma., he might have done much better.
US Olympic Committee should be jailed, if only overnight.
There will always be great coaches and players without a cup on their resume. It doesn’t mean you stop looking for the right mix of coaches and player to raise the hardware.
Vegas shows definitively that a tough, knowledgeable GM and Coach along with hungry, borderline players can still be formidable in a League filled with too many overpaid figure skaters and daffodils.
Sorry to put you through all this extra work, ilb.
Coos
3:17 bravo sir, bravo!!!
Per Zippay:
Rangers and Knicks at Staples Center here in L.A. today. Last time the NYers played same day in building other than MSG was in Boston Garden, Feb. 3, 1957, per Elias. BTW, Blueshirts lost 4-1, Knix fell 116-98.
NEW POST
Rangers 2, Kings 4
GWG: Toffoli
Rangers shots: 28
Kings shots: 35