Good morning, boneheads!
Well, it’s finally over for some of you guys who seemed to be very close to having a serious breakdown. But it’s now luckily all over for you. Thank goodness!
What’s next for this season? Stanley Cup Final on Monday. I’m thinking about posting Go Time posts for the Final. Also, during SCF they will announce winners of some prestigious NHL awards, including Norris trophy. I fully expect Adam Fox to win it. I don’t think it should be even close.
Speaking of D-man. How good is Ryan McDonagh? Still, after all these years.
UPDATE: Click here to read fresh article from Larry Brooks
330 responses to “The Fishsticks are done!”
Sad story: https://nypost.com/2021/06/28/bruins-david-pastrnak-reveals-death-of-newborn-son/
Not just about production. Need to figure out who will be the most complete players out of the young crop on the right.
UGH. I remember when Graves went through that with the twins. Now that I have one of my own it makes my heart break that much more for the Pastrnaks. What a weight to carry.
BDL – if Buch is the only player, ok. But I’m not a fan of/believer in Eichel.
James – Chytil for sure. Unless there is some odd planetary alignment, not touching Strome/Zib until the trade deadline when a Zib move (if still then appropriate) is likely possible and value is highest, or at least above the tainted 20/21 season.
I think THE will stay on the ‘1a/b’ line initially though he may be swapped with LAF. Kakko/KHLsov similar story. We didn’t really see enough of Kravtsov last season but for a beanpole he did seem willing to play a tougher game while giving up 20-30lbs to many. Kakko seems to be on the cusp of getting it, hopefully he does. Ultimately both Kakko and Kravtsov (or another youngster not yet named) are likely to push Buch out.. but not yet. Buch will be 29-30 in four years, Kakko 24 and Kravtsov 25.
Regardless, I think the 3rd and 4th line are more important to the success of this team in the next two seasons than changes to top six. Replacing Chytil with a tough to play against, decent face off center and making a sandpaper 4th that can also chip in a few will go a long ways to getting the team in the playoffs. From there, see Les Habs. If we trade for a 3C you use the seemingly endless supply of defensive prospects as well as the now restocked draft picks along with the likes of Chytil, Guathier etc.
I think they can win with a healthy Igor (a question mark for sure) but I also do not see him on a par with Price, Vasilevskiy which will continue to put pressure on team to play a more defensive game though that might be a good thing.
On this date (actually on June 26) in 1999, New York Rangers General Manager Neil Smith rolled the dice and traded for two high draft picks in an effort to jump start a rebuild of the franchise. He made trades for the fourth and ninth overall picks and unbelievably, both of those picks were busts.
In his biggest deal, Smith traded goalie Dan Cloutier, forward Niklas Sundstrom as well as their first and third round picks in the 2000 draft for the fourth overall pick. With that pick they drafted Czech right winger Pavel Brendl who had scored 73 goals and 134 points in 68 games for the Calgary Hitmen of the WHL. That season turned out to be the high point of Brendl’s career and he never played a game for the Rangers. They later included him in the trade that netted the Blueshirts Eric Lindros.
Cloutier never made it in Tampa, but he did play three years in Vancouver as their number on e goalie. Tampa traded Sundstrom to San Jose and he went to play seven years for the Sharks and Canadiens.
In the other trade, they swapped forward Marc Savard and their own 11th overall pick to Calgary to move up to ninth so they could draft forward Jamie Lundmark. Lundmark did play two seasons for the Rangers and had a six year NHL career, but he never topped 10 goals in season and he was out of the NHL at age 29.
Marc Savard had played two seasons in New York at the time of the trade and he played 12 more seasons. He became a top scorer in Atlanta and Boston with seasons of 97 and 96 points. His career was cut short when he suffered a concussion on a hit by Matt Cooke and then a second concussion on a hit from Matt Hunwick.
This was only the third time in franchise history that the Rangers had two first round picks and the only time that they had two picks in the top 10. They ended up getting 11 goals and 19 assists from the two top picks.
https://bluelinestation.com/2021/06/27/june-26-new-york-rangers-history-draft-day-disaster/
There’s the problem when you just look at scoring for a player like Chytil and then compare him to Buch and say “look, they’re simulate players”…they are not similar players, while Buch won’t ever remind you of Adam Graves but he’s 1000 times more of a physically engaged and 200’ player than Chytil and even when he was younger, Buch was inconsistent but engaged physically.
Night and day player difference.
Hunwick was always such a dirty player.
😉
The dirtiest!
Regardless of move speculation, I think it’s important to remember the flat cap matters and upcoming contracts for current players matter.
There are things we know…
Dolan wants playoffs and both Drury and gallant have made specific mention of the way the teams are constructed and the way the top end players on playoff teams “compete”
Before the garbage men hedgehog and big lazy were rightfully discarded for the treading water mess, they talked about improving the top 6 this off-season (centre? Wing?) and we know that drury has already said the same.
It seems to me that there will be a top 6 “move” based on those things.
It gets tricky because 3 of the top 6 from last season are due for new deals within a year…strome, Zibanejad, and Buch. Couple that with the top 6 is not rugged enough and you can’t just have a gritty 4th line and say ok, we’re done.
Wick, honestly don’t remember Buch as that physically engaged early in his career …took a bit of time …credit Quinn for that…my point is if Buch can do it why can’t Chytil
Bobbyo
In 2017 he was tied for second on the team in fights. Now I’ll be the first to admit fighting is not the end all for engagement but in players that aren’t normally know for scraping it says something.
I also pay a lot less attention to whether guys score or not and a lot more attention to their engagement and play away from the puck…which is probably opposite of what most folks here and in general do.
Bobbyo
To go further with this Buchnevich in 2017-18, his first full nhl season had nearly as many hits (51) as Chytil has had in his 4 ish nhl seasons (60).
Buchnevich has been an engaged player from day one, Chytil has not and still isn’t. They are vastly different players and as we know, scoring is not the only thing to judge a player on and it certainly isn’t the only thing to be focused on.
Buch does have a few Staal genes in him – places much meaner when other teams take liberties against him. As Wicky said, he is no Graves but he’s not the milquetoast that Chytil has been.
I admit to find it frustrating that after hearing NYR fans for years/decades complaining that they never develop their own kids, here is one that they did develop (and probably has some more upside) and the first they want to do is trade him for a different shiny.
places = plays 😉
I, for one, don’t give a crap if the rangers develop their own kids or not as long as they win.
Now, with a cap and a flat one at that, it does help to have those elc on their roster IF they are the right players to fill in and contribute (that’s where drafting and non nhl development come into play).
Issue with Buch is $ and role, some of tang could be solved if they trade kravtsov, but otherwise soon enough we will want Kakko and Kravtsov getting top 6 minutes on the right side and that slots Buch to 3rd line and can’t overpay for that. Also, if they keep Buch around then won’t be any room for change on the top 9 wings.
James, Strome and Panarin have shown they have chemistry, but also that they have have limitations as a duo as neither are imposing players, so legitimate risk they’ll be less effective when games get tighter, especially in the playoffs (small sample size, but that was the case against Carolina and end of this season). Having to play a more defensively oriented winger in the top 6 to make up for that fact isn’t ideal with Kakko and Kravtsov needing top 6 roles.
But I have little fear Panarin is going to be effective if you give him a halfway decent center to play with, and could even argue another center (like Reinhardt) would finish more of Panarin’s setups
Let’s keep everyone and call the team “The New York Hopes and Wishes”
Wait…how about the garden of dreams..
Oh, that’s already taken, never mind
Debate until you’re all blue in the face, friends. No team has ever won anything in this league without trading some of the prospects and players they draft in order to address needs and improve the team.
I understand it’s more of a question of ‘who should stay and who should go’ but the sad reality is that whoever isn’t here come October, is probably going to do well (at least statistically) for their new team.
That doesn’t mean that Drury got it wrong, or that they blew the trade or that Drury got fleeced or that you have to get into one of those “omg omg omg omg did you see how so and so played last night? omg omg dumbest trade ever. shoulda traded so and so and Kreider and Strome omg omg”
Pete- Nate MacKinnon/Rantanen, Auston Matthews/Marner and Crosby/Guentzel also showed that there’s a limit to what they’re capable of in the first couple of rounds this post season. Do you think any of their teams’ fans want them gone?
Can’t criticize playoff capability without ever having seen them in the playoffs. The RW is where they need some defensive capability and some physicality/board battler.
I’m not ready to see Drury break them up at this point.
And no, I’m not comparing Strome to those centers. I’m suggesting that every player has a limit regardless of their pros and cons in this league.
Pete
That’s exactly the point…improper construction of the roster.
Unless panarin has a prime messier or getzlaf or lindros as his centre, he’s going to need a Wilson type on his opposite wing.
You can put a danault type there at $7 mil per but you’re still going to need the Wilson type on the other wing to truly give him the “tough game” effectiveness needed.
It’s why I think strome is actually the best fit as his centre due to known quantity (and very much “assumed” $$$$ going forward) because I don’t think there is a centre out there that can make that line function to its full potential without a rugged Wilson type on the other wing so why pay more than strome $$$ at the centre to still have to pay to upgrade the opposite wing?
I think st Pete had the closest gaps to fill earlier in the thread.
tough to compare Buch and Chytil at earlier points in careers, maybe Buch more engaged but still don’t see a world of difference physically that makes a difference. If Chytil brings more speed and offense from wing at lower cost then resources are freed up for other needs
Is the media done yet with fellating the isles and their fans (the BEST fans in hockey)?
Is Scottsdale F a different poster than Scottsdale?
Is it Scottsdale Fitzgerald?
Ohhhh, I get it.
Bobbyo
It really wasn’t difficult to compare then or now depending on what you paid attention to.
Either way, not the same type players at all.
Post above updated. Larry Brooks with an interesting brand new article
So much depends on what these players want in their next deals.
Drury better know the parameters of all of them to make the best decision because this roster needs help.
Brooks saying the Rangers are checking in on Eichel again.
Pete – seriously, how are you putting Kakko and Kravtsov over Buch? Just because? I’d think we would need to see at least one, if not two, seasons where they show they can do the things Buch is doing now (not even considering room for his own improvement). And Kakko already has been getting some top six minutes?
Goddamnit bdl…I mean Brooks.,,stealing word for word what I said about being able to have eichel and the current two top centres for next season.
Didn’t say it’s what I wanted, but it’s entirely plausible
B(rooks)DL strikes again
I know Brooks is just pulling the names out of the air, but none of those names made me flinch. I like Kravtsov. I think he’s going to end up being a really good two way player, but he’s not a deal breaker. Nils? Eh. Already have Fox.
Bobby, I think they both need to go for the sake of a Josh Anderson type and a true 3C. If Chytil had given any indication that he could assume top six duties as a center I’d see the value. They aren’t exactly hurting for skill or speed so that point is sort of moot.
Eichel is coming!
I’m a true 3C
Rangers don’t need to bring in Eichel for the sake of making a big move. I would be stunned if he wound up being traded within the East.
Brooks must be bored. I guess Eberle and Barzal didn’t invite him to the links this afternoon.
I think you guys are undervaluing Buchnevich. He is as of now a very solid two way NHL wing that can improve a lot of teams in the league with some physicality to his game. Because of the way NY is constructed on the wing he seems to be an odd man out, but if he goes it should be a part of a deal that improves this club. Or Drury may have include one of the younger winger in that deal (if the opposing GM insists ) and retain Buchnevich.
Ilb
That would be “some of you guys”
Buchnevich is a tough call but we need to strengthen the middle. When it comes to Wilson, Isles or Bruins don’t think they see Buchnevich as very physical
I think I’m valuing Buchnevich just right.
I’m neutral on eichel…he’s not the big move I’d be making in the top 6 (it’s rw) he’s a better centre than any current ranger centre but it’s all about the dollars IMO. He’s not a $4 million per better centre than strome or Meeka.
Everything hinges on what Meeka and strome want in their next contracts.
Either way there needs to be centre improve the on the 3rd line and winger improvement on every line (unless kakko and Kreider are in the 3rd line together, then that is fine).
ILB, I value him plenty. If you had to sacrifice one of him, Kakko or Kravtsov who do you trade?
What is fair value for Buch to everyone? $7 mil per? $6 mil?
If you want to gauge how much this blog values Buch compared to other fans, check on the “other blogs” where they’re discussing Buch for Zack Kassian straight up.
Ilb swoops in with generalization then leaves without providing any actual insight to his thoughts on Buch I.E. upcoming salary…keep or trade him..where do you play him if he stays?
Lol
Wicky I don’t know the number, I just know I’d prefer the team didn’t have the amount tied up in Buchnevich when it needs so much
Cant pay Buch 6 or 7 per
JamesG- it depends on who’s coming back and what the opposing GM asks. Out of 3 I’d prefer to keep Kakko.
Eichel doesnt change the mix…our centers could probably do brunch though
Buch has arb rights I think, what was his last contract? $4 mil per?
Still waiting on Ilb for his $$$ prediction
Bobbyo
Not unless you think he’s a first line RW and addresses grit/toughness top 6 issues
What makes you think Buchnevich is going to command 6 or 7 per year? He’s got one year until he is an UFA, and his QO is $3.5M I see around 4.75-5M long term. I just feel like he is becoming a throw in in a deal the Rangers are yet to make.
Summarizing Eichel in the NY Rangers blog-o-sphere (not just RR2)
Wick you like him more than me…don’t see him as top RW that addresses grit/toughness issues
Agree, ILB. I think with pressure on me, I keep Kravtsov over Buch too though.
Personally, I see Buch as their best trade asset if Drury feels the need to add a different element to the top six. With that said I do not take his value with a grain of salt. I think he could be part of a bigger move if they do not want to commit a big number to him for 7 years.
Brooks-“Character and leadership issues have been raised around Eichel, who has spent his career following his 2015 door-prize, second-overall selection behind Connor McDavid with the most dysfunctional franchise in the league. Drury is certainly examining those issues.”
We had his college coach here for 3 years. You’re going to tell me we don’t have a handle on his character? Come-on.
Bobbyo
Exactly my point. You take eichel if the other two aren’t in medium or long term plans or their $$$ demands are close to eichel contract
Ilb and others
I asked what you guys thought he was going to get/fair value.
I never said at any point that’s what I thought it would be.
Problem is the haul they expect for Eichel who has a herniated disk in his neck
I hadn’t thought about a number for Buch because I didn’t/don’t see them committing to him long term regardless.
I would think 6×6.5 more or less. The one year deal would probably be similar to Hayes. 5.2-5.7 mill..
Bobby,
If Eichel had been a Ranger the last three years and he was about to be signed by the Rangers to his current deal, what do you think fans would be saying?
Buch has shown he is willing to throw cheap shots and drop the gloves, but as noted above don’t see him as heavy winger or imposing in any way. Do agree he has shown he can be a good 2way player who would be a great 3rd line RW, but he likely wants to be pair more as a top 6. As i’ve said before, offer him around the Zuch $4m/yr for 4yrs, if he bites great, if not move him
More Eichel rumors. I had hoped that idea was dead……but nooooo.
Obtaining Eichel would not be just a bad move it would be totally assanine.
The price would be prohibitive. His salary is ridiculous and he is damaged goods in more ways then one.
I vote NO….NAY or whatever…NYET
NEIN……NOOOOO.
So Rich you are against it?
Bobbyo……ummmm…..yeah I guess so.😎
Pete
So you suggest offer him 500k more than his current deal?
Even if the numbers are perfect, you’re running out of spots in the top six to improve things/add an element.
Keep Buch, keep Kakko keep Zibanejad can’t move Kreider, don’t trade Chytil yet, Laffy needs top six minutes.
that’s six players.
and don’t forget Blackwell James!
And that’s gets you out of a job, ask the hedgehog.
I mean honestly, is there a single person that posts here that thinks after the on ice events and organizational changes through the last part of the season to now that the top 6 and team overall is going to look really similar to identical to last season?
On Eichel,
I go back and forth between, eh, if the price is right, sure. To, they need to do this even if he doesn’t play for them this year. This kind of player never becomes available via trade and at this age.
big cap hit for a guy that might be injured often, BDL
One smoky day in a darkened scullery
Doon by the river in a factory town
Where bad things happen & the walls are drippn’
And the ghosts are flittin’ frae the cold hard ground
A pot & kettle on the hob were settled
A’ hissin’ their patter so bileous cruel
An awfy matter o’ clout & claterin’
Battlin’ wits in a hideous duel
If Strome is part of the Eichel deal and his cap hit leads to Mika walking I don’t see how acquiring him makes them better. And that’s if he is healthy. They then have two holes to fill at center rather than one and Eichel ain’t Mess. He doesn’t make the whole team better. I see them giving up a lot of assets for someone who winds up on LTIR and they have no centers left except Chytil. It just smells like Sather chasing bright shiny objects all the time (Bure, Nash, Lindros) that depleted the feeder system and never made them very good. I’d make the move for one of Walt’s kids but not for Eichel.
Wicky, I fear you underestimate the power of
SKILL! SKILL! SKILL!
: D
ORF that’s the real issue with Eichel. So many IFs.
1. IF Mika is going to command 7+ million in reality (read: not just the opinions of beat writers and fans)
2. IF Eichel is healthy
3. IF the price is right. In other words, not sacrificing too many pieces to have one guy who doesn’t change things much other than to give them more star power and a cap hit that rivals Panarin’s.
It’s a big risk. And not as simple as ‘well, he’s an upgrade over Mika or Strome’
You know one of the reasons that Tampa has such a complete team? Take a look at the cap structure. Stamkos and Hedman are the two most expensive guys (for now) followed by Mac, Johnson, Point. All of which make <7million.
Now before you go barking up my tree about income tax in Florida- try to understand the actual point. You can build a team without obnoxious contracts. Especially when you have young talent with palatable cap hits for a few years.
Another reason is the extra 18 million in cap space!
I am no fan of Crosby but I would rather trade for him than Eichel.
Yes he is getting long in the tooth….but he is a proven leader and 3x Stanley Cup winner. I don’t see leader or winner anywhere with Eichel…so once again no.
I am not advocating getting Crosby but if we need an upgrade…well then Crosby….even though to put it mildly….we don’t like him much.
Kreider, Gauthier, strome, Meeka, Lafrenière, Buch, kakko, kravtsov, Chytil, Barron, Blackwell, howden, Rooney, panarin, dig….have I missed anyone? Those are the most frequent forwards and 4 or 5 of them rotated for two positions really.
Not the most fearsome or balanced line up. Honestly, 4 positions need outright upgrades and 2 more if you want “complete” players in them.
subtract Buch, Blackwell, howden, Rooney and bring in depth centers and some beef
you can do that if you draft well James and get said players to take below market to stay. To date we clearly we haven’t drafted any centers of great value so we have to go outside to get them which costs $ and/or pay to retain what they have, so moot point what Tampa has done (and yes the state tax is a real advantage even for those young guys like Point).
Wick, Buch deserves and gets more on the open market, but don’t think it’s a good use of $ for us unless they are somehow moving kreider
It’s a big if perhaps, but besides the neck issue, Eichel’s salary wasn’t unreasonable when signed for a young 1C with his production to date and expected value going forward, which he should be able to hit if he can get away from Buffalo and stay healthy. And think he’d get something pretty similar if he was somehow a UFA today
Bobbyo
Arguably 2 or 3 guys you listed are for the same position so you think switching out one or two of the 12 forwards makes a difference? And only one switch is in the top 6 and one I the bottom?
You allude to the no income tax in Florida but then dismiss it. It makes a difference. There isn’t a level playing field. Whereas Tampa is able to build a team with reasonable or palatable contracts, and only because they circumvented the salary cap this season, the Rangers can’t. Not every superstar like Panarin is going to take less than market value to play for the Rangers. The deck is stacked. Whether it be taxes, cost of living, terrible ownership, or the microscope of playing for the New York media and fans.
Does the Post Office (for instance) pay the same to a carrier who has to work and raise a family in zip 10013 as they do if he worked and lived in some Florida backwater?
James hit the puck right on the logo. Buchnevich is the best trade chip the Rangers have to upgrade the center position or an Alex Tuch type?
coos Florida Backwater? I resemble that remark!
Florida backwater lol
Greetings from Bumfork, Mississippi. pop. 112 How y’all doin’?
Coos
Lmmfao
Well shut myy mouth!
Makes me think of this lol
The idea of acquiring Eichel is simultaneously exciting and terrifying. However, I’d like if they could use the Lightning model of keeping him on LTIR until round 1 of the playoffs. Then, I remember they still wouldn’t be good enough to make the playoffs without him after the trade.
Hey, Sup
Nuttin’ Sup witcho?
I know two people with neck injuries. Both have had ‘remedial’ operations. One’s just about a prescription drug addict and the other one’s in perpetual pain and can’t turn his head enough to safely back out of his owndriveway. Many exceptions, I’m sure, but I ain’t entering into an extended multi-year beaucoup million dollar obligation to any one of them even his his name is Bobby Orr, Jr. Just me.
Speak for yourself. I invest my millions in only risky propositions.
The 2021 NHL Draft on July 23 was scheduled to be the final event of @NHLonNBCSports rights package with the NHL but it’s my understanding that even before NBC lost the rights to ESPN/Turner, NBC informed NHL it wouldn’t be able to produce the draft due to Olympics conflict.
From McKenzie
Looks like it’ll be on “the deuce” 😉
James – Ilb pretty much agreed with me on where Buch comes in – either side of 5 and that was figured from looking at what the majority of the top RW are getting now. Top side is 5.5M which is still probably fair market value. He’s played himself into that group legitimately the past three seasons.
https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2021/points-per-game/all/rightwing?limits=age-21-46,caphit-1750000-20000000
Had the cap expectations been normal, I’d put him around 6 but things won’t be normal for what, 3 -5 years? That is another reason he’d be likely to do a 4 year extension that includes this last RFA year – he gets out as a UFA when the cap will be going up again.
Wow draft on ESPN? Does that mean like three weeks of 24 hour babbling by talking heads? Oh wait, its small flat ball, not big round ball or pointy ball 😉
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